This is my first one-on-one conversation with the brilliant Michel Bauwens. Hope you enjoy!

You can subscribe to Michel's Substack at substack.com/@michelbauwens and follow or participate in his P2P community at wiki.p2pfoundation.net (see also p2pfoundation.net). 

0:00 Intro
2:46 Cycles within cycles within cycles...
31:37 Envisioning a realistic fourth generation of civilization