Kimberly Engels interviews Michael Miley, former journalist for UFO Magazine who has also had his own transpersonal experiences with the phenomenon. In the 1980s and 90s, Michael investigated close encounters reports as an investigative journalist, including the cases of noted researchers like Budd Hopkins and John Mack. Together they discuss the "noise" and challenges he encountered when trying to find reliable information about the phenomenon, what made some accounts more credible than others, and how phenomenology can serve as a useful investigative tool for examining eyewitness testimony and reducing the noise in the dataset. He also discusses the pros and cons of testimony retrieved under hypnosis, and what some of the research suggests about the credibility of such testimony.

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